Re: was----restoring from backup tapes

[almag <almag@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Ok this makes me wonder what mechanism III has in place to either warn 
us of a file reaching its maximum allocated file size, or that a file 
has exceeded max file size.  I know that we can see the number of record 
in the Innovative System Status, but is this information would not be 
reviled her.

How would anyone be able to prevent this type of problem? Are there 
other files that I should be concerned about as well?

Alma

Eeva Stierwalt wrote:
> Good Morning All!  We had a situation here at London Public Library where our Circulation Payment History file exceeded the file size and split in half, meaning that we lost payment history on current accounts, some of which were at the collection agency.  This was something that we didn't notice immediately (I believe over a month had passed--it only showed up on old outstanding accounts since it clears the oldest transactions first).  III was able to increase the size of the payment history file (and we've since increased it further having approached the max yet again).  The only way to recover such data is from backup tapes.  This was unforseen by us (ie. it was not something we knew we would exceed and would have to recover) and unfortunately we lost that data, not being able to backtrack over a month.  We immediately implemented storing 1 tape per week for several (3+) months and we are now in the process of planning to store 1 tape per month off site...  Live and lea
rn!  So, this has taught us that situations can occur in the system that we cannot predict and that III cannot even predict, not knowing the intricate and unique nature of each library operation.  I hope this helps you in your decision!  Kind regards, Eev
> Eeva Stierwalt
> Information Systems Specialist
> Automated Collection Management
> London Public Library
> 251 Dundas St.
> London, ON  Canada  N6A 6H9
> t 519.661.5156
> f 519.663.9013
> e eeva.stierwalt@xxxxxxxxxx
>
> > > > Judy.Humphreys@xxxxxxxxxx 02/23/04 08:07PM >>>
>
> Recently, I asked the Help Desk folks if they could restore some online
> suggestions that had mysteriously disappeared from our system. Innovative
> said they could do this from a backup tape but there would be a fee. 
>
> Some years ago we had the unfortunate experience of losing a hard drive on
> our first Innovative server which did not have raid. Although we have always
> performed a full backup each morning, the failure occurred in the afternoon.
> We had no idea how many circulation transactions and catalog modifications
> were performed between the backup and the failure and this added another
> level of work to the recovery process. Innovative was only able to restore
> our database to what it was at the time of the last full backup. I also
> learned that Innovative had no records of our system configuration as it
> pertained to self-check machines, TNS and other services we use. It took at
> least a week of working with Innovative and our IT department to really
> restore our system to full functionality. And we also spent many staff hours
> checking in materials we believed had been recently returned to make sure
> they were no longer on the patrons' records. There was no way to know what
> materials had been checked out between the backup and the crash. I hope we
> will never have that experience again given that our new Innovative server
> has raid.
> ___________________________________
> Judy Humphreys
> Library Services Manager
> Mountain View Public Library
> 585 Franklin Street
> Mountain View, CA 94041
> 650-903-6865
> judy.humphreys@xxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Rhee [mailto:erhee@xxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 12:52 PM
> To: 'IUG INNOPAC List'
> Subject: RE: restoring from backup tapes
>
>
> One thing missing in the discussion so far is safekeeping the backup tape.
> I send the most recent tape off-site every morning, in our case, to a branch
> 6 miles aways.  Does no good to keep a backup tape in a building that can
> flood or burn.  Innovative will provide a replacement software release and
> you can load your backup to a replacement server, but not if the tape is
> destroyed.  We do a full backup Monday-Friday due to the system's
> limitations requiring verification before another backup can be run - don't
> have the level of staff on weekends to verify and initialize a new tape.  I
> have two sets of tapes - week one and week two and a few extras in case one
> goes bad, to use when I load a new release, etc.  I automatically purchase
> new tapes at the beginning of each fiscal year and have it set up in my
> Outlook calendar as a reminder every July. As far as extracting specific
> data, I am not a tech expert, but in theory it probably could be done with
> Innovative's help, but I don't think it would be practical and I bet there
> would be a fee for that special service on their part. Anyone know for
> certain?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Ruml [mailto:David.Ruml@xxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 12:38 PM
> To: IUG INNOPAC List
> Subject: RE: restoring from backup tapes
>
>
> We also backup Monday to Friday, and would also like to backup on the
> weekends.  But our server is down at City Hall, so the I.T. people are in
> charge of changing the tapes, and they don't work on weekends.  We've been
> lucky so far, I guess.
>
> We use two weeks of backup tapes, if I'm not mistaken.
>
> DAVID E. RUML
> Cataloging & Systems
> Carrollton Public Library
> 4220 N. Josey Lane
> CARROLLTON, TEXAS  75010
>
> david.ruml@xxxxxxxxxx
> www.cityofcarrollton.com/library
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: innopac-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:innopac-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of lmueller@xxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 2:26 PM
> To: IUG INNOPAC List
> Subject: Re: restoring from backup tapes
>
>
> I always look at backups like insurance.  You hope to never need it and are
> glad to have it when you need it.  We have a 30 day rotation  on our tapes.
> We do a full backup Monday - Friday.  We would rather have a daily backup
> for everyday but with the way III implemented this, we are unable to verify
> tapes on the weekend or load tapes for initialization (don't get me started
> on this ).
>
> Anyway, you need to make sure you are covered in the event you need to
> recover a valuable piece of information.  If you can do this by rotating a
> week's worth of tapes and are willing to accept the risk, then go ahead.  I
> would rather error on the side of too cautious than not cautious enough.  As
> an academic as well as a city agency, we have policies we have to adhere to
> so tapes are not object and we will use, reuse, and buy what we need to be
> in compliance.
>
> Just my 2 cents.  Good luck
>
> Lori Mueller
> Director of Student IT Systems Services
> City Colleges of Chicago
> 312-553-3381 (w)
> 312-933-2918 (mobile)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Sue Boggs <boggs@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Monday, February 23, 2004 1:51 pm
> Subject: restoring from backup tapes
>
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > While dealing once again with a backup device gone bad my new 
> > library 
> > director asked me a question that gave me pause. We currently use 
> > a 21 tape 
> > rotation, three sets of seven tapes so we have essentially three 
> > weeks of 
> > full backups. She asked me why we had so many (since it looks like 
> > we need 
> > to buy new tapes since the drive Innovative sent us takes 
> > different tapes 
> > then we had been using) and the best answer I had was the lame 
> > "because 
> > we've always done it that way".
> >
> > The more I thought about it, the less I could justify this set-up 
> > from a 
> > data stand point anyway. There is always the argument of how often 
> > the tape 
> > gets used and how long it lasts but putting that aside will we 
> > ever need 
> > more than one week's worth of backups? For shared network files it 
> > makes 
> > sense, since the occasion might happen (and has to me) that 
> > someone 
> > realizes an error was made in an Excel spreadsheet two weeks ago 
> > and has 
> > been compounded ever since, so they'd like to backup the version 
> > from two 
> > Tuesdays ago and start again from there. I think this was the 
> > background 
> > and training of the systems librarian who first set up our system 
> > in 1992.
> >
> > But is there an equivalent situation where we'd want to do that 
> > with our 
> > Innopac? The only thing I can remotely see is some financial 
> > situation (say 
> > to go back and re-set just one fund balance that got messed up) 
> > but is it 
> > even possible to restore just some data? Are these backups an all 
> > or 
> > nothing source if the computer totally crashes and nothing more? 
> > In that 
> > case we'd only want the most recent full backup (assuming you do a 
> > full 
> > backup every day as we do) and keep a few days worth just in case 
> > the 
> > latest tape turns out to be bad when you go to do the restore. The 
> > few 
> > posts in the archives on restoring seemed to cover full restores 
> > from a 
> > hard-drive crash but not any partial restores.
> >
> > So for the moment setting aside arguments of tape life and being 
> > able to 
> > rotate tapes off site, does anyone have thoughts on why we would 
> > need more 
> > than one week's worth of tapes?
> >
> > Sue
> >
> > Sue Boggs
> > Cataloging & Library Technician
> > Technical Services
> >
> > Library
> > University of Puget Sound
> > 1500 N. Warner St. #1021
> > Tacoma, WA 98416-1021
> >
> > (253) 879-2667
> > boggs@xxxxxxxxxx
> >
> >
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--
Alma García			Library Systems Administrator
Mills College Library		510-430-2021	
5000 MacArthur Blvd.		510-430-3155 fax
Oakland, CA  94613