RE: Hotmail Blocked Message Problem

["Jan Sapp" <Jan.Sapp@xxxxxxxxxx>]

I have been working on the problem of our notices not going to AOL
accounts.  AOL has told me that it is because our city IP's are not
being verified thru reverse domain name servers.  The city's IT
department has managed to get some of the problems resolved.  I can now
send "Hi, how are you" test messages to staff with AOL and the messages
go into their new email box.  I'm still having trouble with the circ
notices.  
One thing we found out was that people who said they were not getting
circ notices really were getting them.  The notices were going into a
spam folder instead of their new mail folder.  None of the staff or
patrons I have talked to even knew about the spam folder until I had
them look for it.  AOL filtered our notices with no warnings and nothing
bounced back to the library.  

Jan Sapp
Electronic Resource Coordinator
Carrollton Public Library
972-466-3591
jan.sapp@xxxxxxxxxx
 
OUT OF OFFICE:  February 16 and 17
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: innopac-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:innopac-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Vince Novoa
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:50 PM
To: 'IUG INNOPAC List'
Subject: RE: Hotmail Blocked Message Problem


Please note: This is not only an msn or hotmail problem. I am a msn
subscriber, and I also have one of their free hotmail accounts. What I
have noticed with the new filtering is you can set the levels
(Exclusive, High, Medium, or Low). You can also add email addresses to
your safe list. This has been working great for me personally! They also
warn the user to check their Junk Mail regularly when you set it at a
high level. More of the big providers are going to this type of
filtering, and I don't think that this is going to be isolated to msn
users. Here are some examples that we experienced. When the doom virus
was going around during the last few weeks, AOL noticed attacks from our
campus, and they shut down email coming from our campus IP's. A lot of
our AOL users did not get their emails, and the campus was not
immediately notified about this. Also, we used to have the google tool
bar available for students on our computing lab computers. If the user
clicked on the pop-up blocker icon it would block our uc-elink journals,
which rely heavily on pop-up windows. I just noticed that Yahoo offers a
pop-up blocker.

I feel this is going to be a trend with these companies. I don't know if
this is going to resolve your problem, but we have given our patron's
our email address (scirc@xxxxxxxxxx), and we have told them to add
this address to their safe list for all email programs that offer
filtering (yahoo, hotmail, aol).

Good luck in getting this resolved!

Vincent Novoa
Head, Access Services & Operations
UCSC S&E Library
1156 High Street
Santa Cruz, Ca 95064

Voice: 831.459.3141  Fax: 831.459.2797
Email: vnovoa@xxxxxxxxxx


-----Original Message-----
From: innopac-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:innopac-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Harvey Hahn
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 4:58 PM
To: innopac@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Hotmail Blocked Message Problem


At 03:58PM on 02/12/04, gagnon@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> Microsoft's Hotmail is intentionally blocking e-mail messages sent by 
> our Innovative server.  We have exchanged messages with Hotmail, and 
> they have verified that this is being done:
>
>> Thank you for contacting MSN Hotmail.  With the help of the detailed
> > troubleshooting information you have provided, we have determined
> that
>> the message in question has been blocked by an MSN Hotmail filter 
>> deployed to stop unsolicited e-mail.  Like many other e-mail service 
>> providers, MSN Hotmail uses filtering methods to stop unsolicited 
>> e-mail.  Consumers have told us that stopping unsolicited e-mail is a
> > top priority and because our #1 goal is pleasing our customers, we
> are
>> employing technology that helps protect them from unsolicited e-mail
>>
> > While we understand that it is important to you that you be able to
> send
>> e-mail to users of the Hotmail service, Microsoft does not have an 
>> obligation to deliver any particular e-mail message.
>>
>
> If you have insight as to what in our Innovative mail server is 
> causing this, please let us know.  Hotmail would not tell us what in 
> particular flags our messages as spam.

And they probably never will tell you, because the response could enable
spammers to work around MSN's technology.

> The messages that started this investigation were hold pickup notices 
> that the patron stopped receiving without warning.  No bounce messages

> are sent, the mail is just deleted without either party being aware of

> the situation.

Probably the only approach that would have any chance of success is for
affected Hotmail subscribers (obviously, MSN will listen more to
*paying* customers than free customers) to *complain* to MSN Hotmail
that *solicited* email is being filtered out by their system.  (After
all, library users have requested--i.e., solicited--their library to
send them hold pickup notices. However, libraries *might* have a problem
with overdues, bills, etc., being considered unsolicited email.  Maybe
wording to this effect ought to be included in email address
requests/permissions.)  Users need to *demand* that MSN Hotmail fix this
"bug" in their email filtering software.  Paying customers are paying
for the service of having solicted email delivered.  If MSN Hotmail is
defaulting on that service, then paying customers should complain loudly
(and as high as possible) and demand refunds for undelivered solicited
email or that the bugs be fixed.  If you're paying for email service
from a vend!  or and you aren't receiving email through that vendor,
then what exactly are you paying for??  (Sounds like the FTC ought to
get involved for fraud.) If MSN Hotmail insists everything is working OK
(in the sense that they are "blacklisting" certain kinds of email
messages), then the paying customers need to not only insist on but
demand the ability of MSN Hotmail providing the customers with the
ability to "whitelist" certain addresses (that is, tell MSN Hotmail that
messages from these addresses are to be permitted to be delivered by the
system to the customer without question).  The *only* way that MSN
Hotmail will change its "censorship" practices is for customers to
complain, and to complain loudly *and in public*.  They should complain
in every MSN forum and group that they might belong to, urging others to
complain as well.  Unfortunately, with Microsoft, it's only the squeaky
wheel that gets the grease.  Likewise, libraries should probably
complain of such practices!
  to their regional and national associations to bring pressure to bear
on major email vendors that practice such tactics without providing
options around them for customers to take advantage of (such as
whitelists). <turn off rant now>  ;-)

P.S. I'm not a Hotmail customer, so I have no idea if Hotmail already
provides a whitelisting service.  I'm basing my comments only on what
the original message stated.  Obviously, if MSN Hotmail provides
whitelisting, then libraries need to inform their email patrons that
they need to put the library's email server address on their whitelists.

Harvey


--
===========================================
Harvey E. Hahn, Manager, Technical Services Department Arlington Heights
(Illinois) Memorial Library
Desk: 847/506-2644 -- FAX: 847/506-2650 -- E mailto:hhahn@xxxxxxxxxx
Personal web pages: http://users.anet.com/~packrat


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