RE: Hotmail Blocked Message Problem

["Vince Novoa" <vnovoa@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Please note: This is not only an msn or hotmail problem. I am a msn
subscriber, and I also have one of their free hotmail accounts. What I have
noticed with the new filtering is you can set the levels (Exclusive, High,
Medium, or Low). You can also add email addresses to your safe list. This
has been working great for me personally! They also warn the user to check
their Junk Mail regularly when you set it at a high level. More of the big
providers are going to this type of filtering, and I don't think that this
is going to be isolated to msn users. Here are some examples that we
experienced. When the doom virus was going around during the last few weeks,
AOL noticed attacks from our campus, and they shut down email coming from
our campus IP's. A lot of our AOL users did not get their emails, and the
campus was not immediately notified about this. Also, we used to have the
google tool bar available for students on our computing lab computers. If
the user clicked on the pop-up blocker icon it would block our uc-elink
journals, which rely heavily on pop-up windows. I just noticed that Yahoo
offers a pop-up blocker.

I feel this is going to be a trend with these companies. I don't know if
this is going to resolve your problem, but we have given our patron's our
email address (scirc@xxxxxxxxxx), and we have told them to add this
address to their safe list for all email programs that offer filtering
(yahoo, hotmail, aol).

Good luck in getting this resolved!

Vincent Novoa
Head, Access Services & Operations
UCSC S&E Library
1156 High Street
Santa Cruz, Ca 95064

Voice: 831.459.3141  Fax: 831.459.2797
Email: vnovoa@xxxxxxxxxx


-----Original Message-----
From: innopac-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:innopac-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Harvey Hahn
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 4:58 PM
To: innopac@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Hotmail Blocked Message Problem


At 03:58PM on 02/12/04, gagnon@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> Microsoft's Hotmail is intentionally blocking e-mail messages sent by
> our Innovative server.  We have exchanged messages with Hotmail, and
> they have verified that this is being done:
>
>> Thank you for contacting MSN Hotmail.  With the help of the detailed
> > troubleshooting information you have provided, we have determined
> that
>> the message in question has been blocked by an MSN Hotmail filter
>> deployed to stop unsolicited e-mail.  Like many other e-mail service
>> providers, MSN Hotmail uses filtering methods to stop unsolicited
>> e-mail.  Consumers have told us that stopping unsolicited e-mail is a
> > top priority and because our #1 goal is pleasing our customers, we
> are
>> employing technology that helps protect them from unsolicited e-mail
>>
> > While we understand that it is important to you that you be able to
> send
>> e-mail to users of the Hotmail service, Microsoft does not have an
>> obligation to deliver any particular e-mail message.
>>
>
> If you have insight as to what in our Innovative mail server is
> causing this, please let us know.  Hotmail would not tell us what in
> particular flags our messages as spam.

And they probably never will tell you, because the response could enable
spammers to work around MSN's technology.

> The messages that started this investigation were hold pickup notices
> that the patron stopped receiving without warning.  No bounce messages
> are sent, the mail is just deleted without either party being aware of
> the situation.

Probably the only approach that would have any chance of success is for
affected Hotmail subscribers (obviously, MSN will listen more to *paying*
customers than free customers) to *complain* to MSN Hotmail that *solicited*
email is being filtered out by their system.  (After all, library users have
requested--i.e., solicited--their library to send them hold pickup notices.
However, libraries *might* have a problem with overdues, bills, etc., being
considered unsolicited email.  Maybe wording to this effect ought to be
included in email address requests/permissions.)  Users need to *demand*
that MSN Hotmail fix this "bug" in their email filtering software.  Paying
customers are paying for the service of having solicted email delivered.  If
MSN Hotmail is defaulting on that service, then paying customers should
complain loudly (and as high as possible) and demand refunds for undelivered
solicited email or that the bugs be fixed.  If you're paying for email
service from a vend!
 or and you aren't receiving email through that vendor, then what exactly
are you paying for??  (Sounds like the FTC ought to get involved for fraud.)
If MSN Hotmail insists everything is working OK (in the sense that they are
"blacklisting" certain kinds of email messages), then the paying customers
need to not only insist on but demand the ability of MSN Hotmail providing
the customers with the ability to "whitelist" certain addresses (that is,
tell MSN Hotmail that messages from these addresses are to be permitted to
be delivered by the system to the customer without question).  The *only*
way that MSN Hotmail will change its "censorship" practices is for customers
to complain, and to complain loudly *and in public*.  They should complain
in every MSN forum and group that they might belong to, urging others to
complain as well.  Unfortunately, with Microsoft, it's only the squeaky
wheel that gets the grease.  Likewise, libraries should probably complain of
such practices!
  to their regional and national associations to bring pressure to bear
 on major email vendors that practice such tactics without providing options
around them for customers to take advantage of (such as whitelists). <turn
off rant now>  ;-)

P.S. I'm not a Hotmail customer, so I have no idea if Hotmail already
provides a whitelisting service.  I'm basing my comments only on what the
original message stated.  Obviously, if MSN Hotmail provides whitelisting,
then libraries need to inform their email patrons that they need to put the
library's email server address on their whitelists.

Harvey


--
===========================================
Harvey E. Hahn, Manager, Technical Services Department
Arlington Heights (Illinois) Memorial Library
Desk: 847/506-2644 -- FAX: 847/506-2650 -- E mailto:hhahn@xxxxxxxxxx
Personal web pages: http://users.anet.com/~packrat


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